NYRR 18-Mile Training Run

A few weeks ago, I was asked if I could fill in a hole in the lineup for the NYRR 18-Mile Training Run that was held this past Sunday -- pacing for 10:41/mile (the 4:40 group, when put in full marathon terms). Gladly -- not only do I like doing the pacing, and being able to help build up my resume specific to NYRR is something I need if they are going to eventually offer me a spot on the marathon pacing team, if and when a hole opens up on a time that is in my wheelhouse.

The weekend was one helluva fast blur. I went to work on Friday and took up the bus to NYC. Unfortunately, the Beltway had such hideous traffic, it added at least an extra 30 minutes onto our travel time up, so we arrived so late that I didn't get onto the LIRR out to my mom's place until after 11pm. And it was amazing to me just how crazy busy Penn Station was at that hour. (Part of it was because the Harry Styles concert had just ended.) By the time the train pulled in and the Uber dropped me off, it was a little after 1am.

There wasn't all that much time that I got to spend visiting with my mom on Saturday. She had arranged for a car to pick me up on Sunday morning to drop me off just outside the entrance to Central Park. The driver arrived 30 minutes early -- just after 4am. I was actually ahead of schedule anyway, so a few minutes later, I was out the door. Not unexpectedly, there was basically no traffic to deal with. So, where I had planned to arrive about 5:30am (and accounted for a drop of buffer in case there was construction or something else that added time), I wound up arriving just after 5am - in time to see a decent bit of the initial set-up still underway.

Thankfully, there were a couple of chairs inside the tent for the pace team, so I was able to get off my feet and relax for a little while until the registration tent was ready to hand out bibs. Plenty of time for  me to affix the bib onto my shirt, make sure there was nothing in my bag that I needed any more, and bring it down to bag check - well ahead of when the coach with the pacer flags arrived. Donning the "bra" is still a little awkward (that will take a fair bit to get used to), and having someone put the flag into the holder on the back side is also a bit odd. It is what it is. I had time to go in the portapotty one more time before our group photo -- something I hadn't done with the flag on my back previously. It's really quite awkward getting in. Once in, no real problem. Getting out was really weird, because I had to wind up backing out. Thankfully there wasn't any traffic walking outside at that point.

Shortly after the group photo, it was off to the corral. I chatted up several of the runners in advance, answering questions about how to become a pacer, especially on the NYC Marathon team. it was barely starting to drizzle slightly by the time we finally started.

Soon enough, though, it was raining in earnest. And several times pretty heavily. I had several people in the group who engaged in conversation throughout, and were responsive every time I highlighted that we were going too fast and needed to pull back on the uphill, or that we could enjoy going faster on the downhill we were in. The way this Central Park 3-loop course works, the vast majority of the mile markers are on the uphill climbs. So, frequently, it looked like we were behind pace at my time checks. Never by much, but still a little annoying to see. But it was always pretty much within the "window" that I had in mind.

As is typical for me, late in the run, I made sure to announce to everyone that they should make sure to get in front of me within the last mile -- depending on just how much they had left in the tank; just that they should wait until we got past the last big hill to make their move. I was happy to see several of them take me up on that and charge ahead with a lot of energy. I was a bit on the fast side at the tail end of the race, finishing about 42 seconds faster than expected time -- where I was hoping to be closer to about 25 seconds under (the equivalent of 30 seconds under as my goal for a full marathon). Still, success for time and getting people across in the desired time, and providing plenty of advice and encouragement along the way.

After I got my bag and handed back the flag, etc., I had plenty of time left to do the few things I planned on prior to catching my bus back home, so for about 20-30 minutes, I stood just before the announcers just before the final turn to the finish line and held up a hand to hive-five the finishers. Lots of people were happy to make their way over to give the high-five, clearly thrilled with their getting this long run done. And lots of them having run in the Bronx 10-miler the day before. It had finished raining by that point.

Finally, I made my way to the other side of the roadway, got my sneakers and socks off (finally!) to don my flip-flops, and made my way down to Battery Park (where there is a location of my national-brand gym). I haven't been in that particular area in quite a while. The first thing I wound up seeing though is an impressive statue of the namesake after whom the Verrazzano Bridge was named.

A few other things visible from within a block of that location:

After showering and changing (so happy I was able to do so), I headed up to Little Italy. It was the 100th anniversary of the San Gennaro festival. 

And while I would have loved to go to Katz's to get a pastrami sandwich, I haven't been to the San Gennaro festival for at least 35 - 40 years, so I decided to forego my favorite NYC lunch to get my standard fare from San Gennaro. I haven't had spicy sausage in years (I used to make it for myself for dinner intermittently). And the fresh zeppoles? Oh, scrumptious! Hot, soft, and TONS of powdered sugar. (I started with the ones that were well-dusted in the initial shake, and then re-shook the bag a couple of time as I proceeded.)

As I was wrapping up my time at the festival, the slight drizzle that had started during my walk turned into a steady rain. While I had an umbrella with me, it was a really small one, so my left arm was getting wet, not to mention my sneakers (and wool socks) were getting soaked through as I walked all the way back up to Penn Station. (I had the time to kill, and wanted to have an active recovery walk.)

I hung out inside Penn Station for a little while, made my way through all the way to 9th Ave. where I exited and made the short walk a couple of blocks away to wait for the bus to northern Virginia. What a whirlwind weekend!

Run Rome the Marathon -- Tiber Island

Just before Mile 7 on the course (6km), we make our way toward Isola Tiberina --- an island in the Tiber River. It is associated with the temple of Asclepius and has had the Fatebenefratelli Hospital on it since being founded in the 1500s. Depending on which legend you prefer, the island was formed either by angry Romans throwing the body of tyrant Tarquinius Superbus into the river, or them throwing his wheat and grain into the river – either being the basis for the formation of the island. Who’s to question a legend that is over 2500 years old? Certainly not me.

The hospital here also has a positive connection to the Holocaust. While the Nazis were rounding up Jews from the Rome Ghetto, the head of the hospital (Dr. Borromeo) "invented" a contagious, deadly disease – “Il Morbo di K” – which kept the Nazis away, protecting Jews that were hiding inside.

Erie Strikes Again

As anyone who has run the Erie Marathon before (especially multiple times) knows, the weather conditions can be highly variable year-to-year. (OK, who am I kidding? That's basically ALL marathons, amiright?) This year, all of us were burdened with temperatures that started about 70F and gradually increased (about 75F by the time I finished), and high humidity throughout (starting somewhere around 90%). These conditions are a recipe for sapping runners' energy very quickly, and even suddenly -- especially if one isn't paying enough attention to the combination of water intake, electrolyte consumption, and additional external cooling.

While this is the fourth time I've run the Erie Marathon, it is the first time that I've done so as part of the Pace Team. Originally I was slated for a bit of a slower time, but given needed lineup shuffling due to injury, I was placed in the coveted 4-hour slot. (I've paced many times over the years on either side of that, but this is the first time I was the 4-hour pacer.)

I arrived on Saturday a little later than I might have otherwise given a nice visit I had with my godson who is in his final semester at Pitt. By the time I got to the pavilion in Presque Isle Park that served as the expo, there was only about one hour left. Despite that, there were a decent number of people stopping by our booth asking questions, looking for some advice. As is standard, given we didn't have a pace group for EVERY five-minute increment for this race, invariably there was some grumbling from runners who fell in that "uncovered" middle area, and strategizing as to how best to take advantage of the pace groups and when/how to adjust to hit the desired time. The group dinner we had later that evening was a good time, with several engaging conversations at the different parts of the table; no one appeared to be left out of any conversations.

On race morning, given that the few of us in the car I was in left about 5-10 minutes later than we originally planned, I was very happy that we had parking passes that allowed us to park right *at* the pavilion (which also serves as the start/finish area). The line of cars trying to get to and park in Waldameer Amusement Park was very long and slow-moving. We would have had minimal time available to make one last pit stop and check a bag before needing to be in position for the pacer photo and then line up in the corrals. That extra time is so nice to help settle in.

Finally, we take our pacer photo at the start banner and then move to the staging area. Given how relatively small the actual starting area is, Erie has everyone line up on the gravelly area just on the other side of a small patch of trees, in pace order, from which they load the start area. While the method works just fine, the staging area could do with being larger, so that the pace group leaders aren't so tight together -- which makes it tricky for the runners to properly align themselves. As we were waiting around, I tried to identify my group, figure out who the first-timers were, answered some questions.

Being as far back as I was from the sound system, by the time we were being loaded into the start area, I heard the last few bars of the national anthem. It's the first time I can remember that I didn't take off my hat for it. (Kinda hard to do when you don't know it's being played.) Oh well.

Finally, we were off, to the iconic melody of "Chariots of Fire." Given how tightly packed we are in the start, I made it more of a point than normal to announce to my group, while I was walking (not jogging) towards the start, that we don't need to start running until we get to the line. Walking right there allows us to get a little empty space between us and the people in front of us, making life a lot easier on us.

It wasn't long before the conditions were being felt by everyone. While there weren't any apparent negative effects, several people were commenting about just how much earlier than typically they were sweating. Yep - it was going to be one of those days.

To the runners' benefit on a day such as what we had, Erie has water stations approximately every mile of the course. Despite them being very short (one table each for Gatorade and water), often their volunteers spread out, which helped prevent bottlenecks or people simply having to stop to pick up a cup. And having them that frequent meant my group had to endure hearing me exhort them even more frequently than normal to "drink and douse!" There was one person in my group who ran by my side for as long as she remained with us that early on passed up trying, and a couple of times was unsuccessful in grabbing a cup. After seeing that a couple of times, I was more pointed for the group about making sure they douse at every single table. Even if they needed to stop to get the cup and then take a little time catching back up. 

By the time we hit halfway, for at least a couple of miles afterwards, we were seeing people walking back towards the start line. No clue what had happened that they wound up being a DNF, but there were LOTS of DNFs this time around. Where there were over 1600 people who were registered, fewer than 1000 finished. (Unknown how many didn't start - so they likely weren't all DNFs.) Alas, it seemed like I had lost about half of my group by that point; I don't know if they merely slowed but finished, or if they chose to stop by the halfway point, or even had an injury of some sort. (No, there wasn't a separate, simultaneous half marathon event that they decided to "downgrade" to on the fly.) What's worse, but not at all unexpected, I lost the rest of my group by the time I hit about Mile 18 or so. That's always depressing.

During the remaining miles, though, there were multiple times that I saw people who were walking that would perk up and start running as I approached. Seeing the 4-hour sign was motivation to pick it back up. I welcomed them, and brought them along as far as they could go before they slowed down again -- some because of cramps, others because their energy stores were just too sapped to keep the pace.

There was one runner who did everything you weren't supposed to do, and did spectacularly well. From what he told me during our conversation between when he joined me around Mile 22, and when he moved forward after Mile 23, his original goal for the day was to break 5 hours. Then, he wound up lining up with his friend in the 4:20 group to run with her. At some point (I don't remember when he said), he realized that he had a lot left "in the tank" and decided to leave her in his dust, and pulled ahead. Not long after he finished telling me that, and my remarking that none of that really made sense to do, that it was highly risky to have done that on a day with those conditions, but that he was doing remarkably well for it, he declared uber-confidently, "I've got more in the tank!" and started pulling away from me. "Good luck!"

He got a decent bit ahead of me, but by the time we had gotten to Mile 25, I was close enough that I could see him look over his should (as if to figure out if I was gaining on him) and I made sure to raise my sign up high so he could figure what the distance was. I wound up getting close enough (maybe 50 feet behind him) that I called out his name and told him "Don't let me pass you!" He answered with a cocky "Never!" and pulled up ever so slightly further ahead.

Then, we got to the turn around point at about 25.9. I was even closer on his heels at the point, and he did a risky spinning move while going around the cones for the turnaround, and I yelled again "You better stay in front of me!" at which point he definitely put it in overdrive. While I finished in 3:59:31.5 (click for finish video), almost exactly at the time I wanted as the 4-hour pacer, he wound up finishing in 3:58:43. Wonderful time! Based on our conversation, it sounds like he may have one more marathon that he's planning on doing -- in his ex-fiance's hometown in Italy. Just to rub it in. (They were originally supposed to run their first one together, but broke up sometime in advance of Erie. He pushed it as much as he could because of that. And it totally worked out for him.)

After getting back to the hotel to shower and change, having been disappointed at previous attempts for a good local burger in Erie, we went for some BBQ instead. Very tasty brisket. And a large enough portion that I actually couldn't finish everything on my plate, let alone have the additional baked beans that my friend handed my way.

Across the road was a very bizarre statue outside the Sportsmen's Lodge I had to capture. I haven't looked to see if there is an actual explanation. (And I didn't even notice at the time what looks like might be a plaque right in front of it.)

On our walk back to the hotel, we stopped at a place that supposedly had ice cream (based on their very prominent sign). Alas, they did not. However, I glimpsed part of a cute display outside, so made my way around some merchandise to discover Sesame Street:

This then led to the discovery of a whole host of other similar displays that Mason Farms had in their outdoor area:

Finally, we got back to the hotel and chose to drive to the ice cream shop. Cute logo for the Freezerie, and good homemade ice cream.

Run Rome the Marathon - from Holocaust to First Saint

 

Next up on the grand tour of Rome is the Ponte Settimia (a.k.a., Il Cobra). This bridge is more fully referred to as the Ponte Settimia Spizzichino. It is suspended over some railroad tracks and connects two neighborhoods together: Garbatella and Ostiense. Talk about a long process from start to finish, though. While an overpass at this location was planned nearly 100 years ago (in 1931), the actual design started in 2003, the project was finally approved in 2009, and it was finished and inaugurated in 2012. Settimia Spizzichino was named after the only female survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau from those rounded up in the Rome Ghetto on Oct 16, 1943 and deported to Auschwitz.

Less than 1 mile away is the Basilica Di San Paolo, which we were introduced to a few miles earlier at Porta San Paolo. 

While it is outside the Aurelian Walls (hence why it is more fully known as the Basilica Papale di San Paolo fuori le Mura), the Vatican actually owns the basilica, built on the burial site of St. Paul. Over the centuries since it was first built in 324, there have been many events which damaged the basilica, and extensive repairs and renovations done to evolve it to its current form.

Down Under Again So Soon? Yep!

Ever since the first time I traveled to Australia in 2000, I made a promise to myself to get back Down Under at least once every 10 years. I managed it in 2010 with a slightly different Australian itinerary. Then COVID ruined my 2020 plans (which included running both the North Shore Marathon in Auckland, New Zealand and the Sydney Marathon one week later). I finally managed to get down to New Zealand for my trip in 2023 and capped it off with a brief stop in Australia to run the Sydney Marathon in its first year of candidacy as an Abbott World Marathon Major. That provided me guaranteed entry into one of the 1st three years of it becoming a major. I made sure to select 2027 to spread out the huge travel time as much as possible. After all, going that far, the trip has to be at least 2 weeks total.

Well, the window just opened to register. Even without knowing the exact date (I knew it would be approx late August 2027), I claimed my spot. Hoping that the earlier time of year compared to the mid-September date I ran it last time will make race conditions more favorable.

Now I need to figure out a few big things:

1) What will my travel itinerary be? I'll likely visit other places in Oceania, just unclear how many days will wind up being Sydney and possibly other places in Australia.

2) How do I apply to be on the pacer team? It'd be great to join the team.

Run Rome the Marathon - Egyptian Pyramid?

 

Next up on the travelogue for the upcoming Run Rome the Marathon, Porta San Paolo and Piramide Cestia. Saint Paul Gate is at the beginning of the road that connected Rome to Ostia, but had been renamed after Saint Paul given it was also the exit from Rome where one could make their way to the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls. (After all, all roads lead to Rome.)

Just next to it along our route is the Caius Cestius Pyramid. The pyramid, constructed to hold this wealthy Roman’s burial chamber, was actually built in 13 BC, about 300 years before Porta San Paolo. Interestingly enough, for some time during the Middle Ages, people thought the pyramid was actually the tomb of Remus (Romulus’ twin), despite Caius Cestius’ name being inscribed in the stone.

Put Yourself Out There

This was from the London Marathon in 2019. For a couple of months ahead of time, I ran on the treadmill in the gym either just with the stockpot (most of the time) or in the full costume with the stockpot (a decent handful of times). I was putting myself out there so visibly and without worrying about reactions because I was not only doing what I needed to to train as much as possible for the difficulty that the run would turn out to be, but more importantly to get attention for potential donations for the UK charity I was running for.

While I don't think anyone from the gym wound up donating -- despite telling me that they would -- to this day, people intermittently ask if I was "that guy." (Yes, indeed.) While they don't recall the fundraising, they still think back to that as a source of inspiration to start up running. Like the guy tonight, they strike up a conversation using that as the starting point. They ask questions about my marathons, what the next one is, my time, how many I've run, what advice I can give on [x], etc. Putting myself out there is still paying dividends for helping others.

Not dissimilar to every time I run as a pacer for a marathon or other race.

Sneaky Thing - Math

Hmm... this result shouldn't be so surprising. Most (all?) of this year, my runs generally have range from 8 miles on the low end (save for the last week of a taper pre-marathon, when distances are shorter), as opposed to being 6 miles during most of my previous training cycles.

For any given run, it's not *that* much extra, tacks on about 20 minutes more to the workout, and enables me to eat a little bit more -- the real motivation behind it.

But those incremental increases have resulted in a sizable cumulative increase in my mileage. This month alone, I've run 260 miles. (I'm actually averaging 65 miles per week? Really?) Across the first 8 months of the year, I've logged just under 1883 miles, whereas in the same timeframe last year I ran just under 1647 miles. A difference of 236 miles -- nearly an entire month's mileage from this small increase in mileage 3-4 days per week.

I'm about to enter a significantly heavy marathon season with 6 marathons I'll be pacing between now and Thanksgiving. (Unclear about December right now.) Ironically enough, each week I run a marathon will likely have a fair bit less mileage than training weeks, given the number of days I take for post-marathon recovery - and don't count my time on the elliptical in my overall mileage totals. 

Run Rome the Marathon -- Tell the Truth!

Nearly 2400 years old, the Mouth of Truth, thought to depict the Roman god Oceanus, is a large marble mask (about 5 feet across) in the Basilica of Santa Maria in Cosmedin. People can tempt fate by placing their hand in its mouth, as legend indicates it will bite off the hand of anyone who places their hand inside it after telling a lie. 

This approximately 3000 pound mask is presumed to have been used as a drain cover for the Temple of Hercules Victor, allowing it to rain inside the temple. It is thought to have been moved from the temple to the church about 700 years ago and placed at its current position inside the portico of the church about 300 years ago. This is among several of the marathon course's landmarks that were shown during the classic 1953 movie, Roman Holiday, as were the previously mentioned Colosseum and Roman Forum.

Run Rome the Marathon - Next to Starting Area

Next up on our tour of the sights along the marathon course: Arco di Constantino.

This triumphal arch next to the Colosseum honors Emperor Constantine’s defeat over Maxentius at the Milvian Bridge. It cannabalized parts of prior monuments from Trajan, Hadrian, and Marcus Aurelius’ times. The many sculptures of emperors on it were all modeled to look like Constantine. There is an inscription above the middle arch which declares Constantine the liberator of Rome. Several of the carved scenes depict several activities of Constantine.

Ominous Phrasing of New Policy for NYC Marathon

Anyone who has run the New York City Marathon in the last several years has heard about (if not directly experienced) various snafus regarding transportation to the start line. Most notably are the exceedingly long lines to get to and through security at the Midtown Library shuttle buses and, separately, the shuttle buses on Staten Island that bring people from the Ferry to the runner's village. 

A sizable part of the problem, at least coming from Midtown, appears to be an excessive number of people showing up well ahead of their scheduled times (likely a combination of paranoia of being late and concern about the excessive lines that they've heard about in prior years' races). This leads to much longer lines and processing time than should be the case for any given wave of buses, often times leading to significant delays in arrival at Fort Wadsworth, and potentially a very limited amount of time for the earliest waves to do everything they need before setting out in the corrals.

Earlier this week, NYRR sent out a notice of their new policy which, if interpreted as harshly as possible, would lead to anyone arriving before or after their assigned time window being subject to disqualification from the race and potentially further sanctions re: future races. Hopefully this is more bluster than anything else, with the goal of getting people to calm down and simply arrive during their assigned time window, to even out the flow/throughput.

It will be interesting to hear the reports from runners in November, to see if there were people negatively impacted by the new policy. And if the excessive lines wind up moderating to a reasonable throughput.

What the heck was that?!

As you may know, I've been running for over 20 years. By now, I thought that I have felt any of the random niggles, aches, or quirks that arise while running. (Mercifully, I've not had to deal with any of the more major problems that hit others.) Well, tonight disproved that notion.

While doing my long run on the treadmill at the gym, with just one more minute left to go, it felt like something came loose on/in my left pinky toe. I've never hopped off the treadmill and onto the static ledges as fast as I did right then. I was pretty sure I didn't break the toe; I kinda thought the minor pseudo-blister I had on that toe decided to peel off. Walking normally was not possible at that point; I had to position my foot slightly awkwardly to avoid putting pressure on the toe. I was anxious enough to get to the locker room, get the sock off, and see "the damage." (And it was a double whammy, because I had forgotten to put on Band-Aids (aka "nip tape") before starting up, and when I looked down and saw my shirt, there was a rather astonishingly large splotch of additional red; I had never had as much of a streak as I did tonight -- eek! Amazing how much it looked like I had been bleeding, considering there was absolutely no blood visible on my body at all.)

Finally I got the sock off, and I couldn't see anything problematic. No bleeding, no peeled off blister. No idea what actually happened. And walking normally is not problematic now. Just glad this didn't happen while I was pacing; it would've totally killed things for me and the group.

Run Rome the Marathon - Starting area

This looks like it will be an extremely impressive starting zone. (Well, we won't be starting INSIDE the area depicted here, rather just outside of it.) The Fori Imperiali comprise several public squares built upwards of nearly 2100 years ago. The Fora of Caesar (46 BC), Augustus (2 BC), and Trajan (113 AD – the last and biggest) are three of the most notable ones, serving as political, religious, and economic centers of the Roman Empire. This is very different than what the Roman Forum was: smaller and which  pre-dated the Imperial Forum by about seven hundred years.

In the background of this photo, and away from which we will be running at the start of the marathon, is the Colosseo, the largest amphitheatre ever built. The Colosseum hosted spectacles from gladiator fights to public executions drawing enormous crowds. Animals were housed within the Hypogeum underneath the Colosseum, and gladiators prepped for their battles there, too, all being raised up into the arena.

It looks like one could take many hours to explore this area. I'll definitely need to make my way through here during my trip!

NYRR 12-Miler

Like last year, I was able to join the NYRR Pace Team for the 12-Mile Training Run in Central Park. They just started using the sort of pace flags that you see at more international races than you do domestic. How does it stay in place, since it obviously isn't connected to a backpack, like London uses? Simple:

It was EXTREMELY awkward donning this top, which has a simple loop in the back that the pole goes into, and a spot for a clip at the bottom of the flag to connect, after first putting on the jersey. Once it was on, though, it was comfortable enough -- it didn't chafe at all and wasn't at all restrictive. It does seem a little awkward (and potentially pricey for NYRR) to fully launder the tops after each run that has pacers. While we keep our pacer shirts for each race, we hand back the pacer flag, pole, and "sports bra" after finishing the race. And the flag really worked well. Yeah, it was tapping lightly against my head, but that wasn't as annoying as expected. No wind today, so it wasn't a wind sail. And I only brushed tree branches once -- not bad.

While I was originally set to pace 9:43/mile (a 4:15 marathon pace), given one of the pacers for 10:18/mile (4:30 marathon) had to drop, leaving a first-time pacer solo, I was asked to move back to co-pace with him. Michael Thomas did a great job!

It was a very warm day, and the Central Park runs are very tricky, because of the constant rolling hills. Everyone with us seemed to be having a good time, many of them sticking with us the whole time and blasting past us near the end to finish well ahead of the goal time -- exactly as we want for everyone in the pace group. In the end, we finished in 2:03:02 -- right in the window we were shooting for (with 2:03:35 being the exact goal).

Getting back to the subway to get back to my car (parked in Queens) was simple enough. Except for crossing over Park Ave., very highly trafficked by tons of runners and bicyclists, thanks to the annual Summer Streets program that closes down the road to vehicular traffic. One of the signs in the subway was amusing enough to snap a pic:

(IYKYK)

And an interesting display in the 51st St. station where I transferred between the E and 6 lines:

Trekking back to my mom's place, though, took an insane amount of time. The roads going east on Long Island are just parking lots -- ugh! So glad I no longer live up here. I feel sorry for anyone who commutes on the highways here; they're dreadful.

Hopefully I'll manage to make it back onto another couple of pace teams for NYRR races/training runs in the near future to help build up my pacing record for NYRR. We'll see.

Best of luck to everyone running the NYC Marathon in about 10 weeks!